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 Post subject: ECU auto gear box
PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2005 12:41 pm 
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Surf Site Member

Joined: 26 Nov 2005
Posts: 63
Location: Birmingham United kingdom
Hiya again,
Sorry guys and gals me again with probably another dumb question but I am just dead set against these electronics intruding in the engine bay because I bought a diesel to rid me of electrical issues!!! no spark plugs no distributor no rotory arm no leads to worry about cool, but now they decided to shove a friggin computer into it without telling me!!!
and guess what yes they went a step further and decided owwww look at the lovely mechanical autobox we sure as hell could stuff this up lovely by connecting a lot of wires to it and attatching it to a friggin puter!!! sheeeshh!
Now the question is...... What would happen if I simply unplugged the gearbox ECU? or would that make my truck undriveable. Not such a daft question as I used to own a Rover 3500 automatic and that didn't have a computer running it.The only wires off that were for the park and neutral start up and connected to an inhibitor switch. The rover box (borg&beck) was a really simple auto 3 speed box everthing was arranged inside it in a dead straight line so you could dismantle it on the bench one piece at a time in a dead straight order. I was able to rebuild it fully at the age of 13 for my dad while he was at work it was as simple as that! No idea what the toyota box is like or what sort it is just that it has a stinkin ECU attatched to it!

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Toyota landcruiser prado sx 2.4 turbo diesel K reg (1992) fitted with 2L-TE engine auto box. Newly fitted injection pump 22100-5B300


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2005 8:34 pm 
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Location: TRINIDAD W.I.
hi chris, this vehicle has 2 ECU, one for the engine and another for the transmission.
If you unplug the engine ECU , the engine will not work.
If you unplug the transmission ECU it will work in only one gear, third gear.

I dont know if a manual pump can work in a 2lte, only then you can get rid of the engine ECU.


cj


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Dec 21, 2005 8:22 am 
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Location: Birmingham United kingdom
Thanks cjawahir,
Pity I don't live permanently on a flat plane of land then! lol
Apparently you can fit a manual pump to the 2L-TE engine but only if it is a manual gear box. The injection mechanic told me that because the car is auto it has the kick down cable and therefore you can't fit a manual pump to it. I can't see why though as the old rover v8 had an auto box on it and is sure as hell didn't have any lousy ecu or electronic fuel pump, but then again this mechanic has the brain of a pea! I would be delighted if I can convert this car to a manual pump even if it means re-routing the kickdown cable to the dash board and manualy pulling it by hand if need be! Any chance that the ecu on the box can be bi-passed ? or even an inboard push button system to select the gear manually from inside the car? It took them years to develop this idea in formula one racing where you use the paddles on the steering wheel to change gear. A very simple idea. This shouldn't be rocket science as the gearbox selects a gear by simply opening and closing solenoids. It's knowing which solenoids to open or close and the wires to connect that is the problem. As I've already said this ain't rocket science and could make driving a shear thrill instead of feeling that your walking a tight-rope in the rain experience just waiting for the next horrific problem to occur and 90% of people giving you the eye and sayin " ohhh errrrr probably the engine management system or the ECU gunna cost a bit" Cost a bit!!!! Cost a bloody mortgauge more like!!! Like I say all I want is worry free driving.
many thanks
chris.

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Toyota landcruiser prado sx 2.4 turbo diesel K reg (1992) fitted with 2L-TE engine auto box. Newly fitted injection pump 22100-5B300


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Dec 21, 2005 11:59 am 
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Location: TRINIDAD W.I.
hi , you can work a manual pump and still get the transmission to work.
I have done this ,I use a 5L engine with manual pump and 2lte transmission, they fit as though they were made for each other.
The transmission only needs TPS signal to work.
I use the 2lte throttle with TPS on the 5L engine, with a cable from the pump to the throttle.


cj


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Dec 21, 2005 12:41 pm 
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Joined: 13 Mar 2004
Posts: 112
Location: Maroochydore/Buderim, QLD
Yep, I sympothise.

Twice in two years (just got it back after 4 weeks off road) trying to trace which electrical system was stopping my vehicle from changing gears properly. This time I had to replace all the earth leads on every component to fix the damn thing.... getting very sick of the electrical issues. Great vehicles when they are working.... but a pain in the rear when something goes wrong.

I'm considering selling my Surf...... had it 3 years, and an excellent car when going, I can't have it off the road for 4 weeks at a time when tracing thsese little things. Only had two issues with it in 3 years, both electrical related.... to earthing following any mechanical work... and it's not always easy to trace which circuit causes the problem.

Adrian

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Dec 21, 2005 7:55 pm 
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Joined: 13 Dec 2005
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Location: UK
I've seen the letters TPS a lot on the forum in connection with faults. What exactly is it please?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Dec 21, 2005 8:03 pm 
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cr15 wrote:
I've seen the letters TPS a lot on the forum in connection with faults. What exactly is it please?


Throttle Position Sensor

Image

Located on the front section of throttle body of the 2L-TE.

Nev

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2005 11:35 am 
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Surf Site Member

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Location: Birmingham United kingdom
cjawahir, how does this arrangement work? I mean are you suggesting that I can simply attach a cable to the where the existing cable is including the cable that goes into the car for the pedal plus the cable which is attatched for the kickdown therefore leaving both as they are and simply adding a cable to this array to control the manual pump?
If this was the case how would I wire up the gearbox ecu to the tps or do I just leave it as it is?
many thanks
Chris.

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Toyota landcruiser prado sx 2.4 turbo diesel K reg (1992) fitted with 2L-TE engine auto box. Newly fitted injection pump 22100-5B300


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2005 3:53 pm 
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Joined: 10 Feb 2004
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Sorry mate but I just don’t get it :D

Sure you can disable the electric shift and do manual shifts but you lose 2nd :shock:

Now you say you want to "manually" do the electric shifting by using buttons etc. No problems it can be done but the big question is why?

I can’t grasp the reasoning as it would still be an electrically operated trans and the fact you would have to constantly remember to push the right button would be a candidate for an accident, especially as you also mention rain !!!

Its an electrically operated trans and thats it. If you want a basic auto then adapt up an early T700 or similar or better yet put a manual 5 speed in it and then you can paddle away :D

JD


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Dec 23, 2005 4:43 am 
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Location: TRINIDAD W.I.
Cjawahir, how does this arrangement work? I mean are you suggesting that I can simply attach a cable to the where the existing cable is including the cable that goes into the car for the pedal plus the cable which is attatched for the kickdown therefore leaving both as they are and simply adding a cable to this array to control the manual pump?
If this was the case how would I wire up the gearbox ecu to the tps or do I just leave it as it is?
many thanks
Chris.”

Hi Chris, you leave the electronics as it is. All the wires that go to the pump will be left unplug.
I don’t see any kickdown cable in this vehicle, this is an electronic transmission.
As I said I use a 5l engine non turbo, add the 2lte intake with TPS.
The check light will remain on all the time. But the vehicle works great.

If you want to make your 2lte engine full manual with no ECU control,
(1) manual pump
(2) Manual turbo boost control with turbo boost gauge

CJ


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Dec 23, 2005 8:49 am 
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Location: TRINIDAD W.I.
Hi Chris, oh yes the cable from the throttle to the transmission, ‘the kick down cable’
Sorry I did not notice it before. We use a Toyota car throttle cable for the kick down.
I will try to post some pictures of the mod, after Christmas holidays.
I will give you the full detail, “I will be back”
Merry Christmas to all

Charitar_jawahir@hotmail.com.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Dec 24, 2005 12:49 pm 
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Joined: 26 Nov 2005
Posts: 63
Location: Birmingham United kingdom
Hiya cjawahir,

Thanks for your reply, Can't wait to get all the info after the holidays thanks again.

Chris.

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Toyota landcruiser prado sx 2.4 turbo diesel K reg (1992) fitted with 2L-TE engine auto box. Newly fitted injection pump 22100-5B300


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2006 9:22 am 
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Location: TRINIDAD W.I.
hi chris, here is what I did.
Image
Image

I have some more picture, I dont know why i cant upload it.
I will try again.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2006 12:22 pm 
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Location: TRINIDAD W.I.
Image
Image
Image


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2006 3:06 pm 
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Joined: 26 Nov 2005
Posts: 63
Location: Birmingham United kingdom
Thanks CJ,

Ok so it looks like this is what I should do:- fit manual pump and leave all the cables alone that means I still have throttle cable attatched to the throttle body as well as the kick down cable for transmission. Then simply add an extra cable from where the existing throttle cable is on the side of the throttle body to the manual pump operating lever.

Now the clever bit! Is fitting the manual pump a simple case of bolting up to the engine and aligning to some prefixed marks as would be the case of fitting a distributor on a carburetted car if so where and which marks should I align?
This garage that has my motor keeps promising me that he will fix the electronic pump in it but I don't think he has a clue as to what he is doing so I am going to collect the vehicle via transporter get it back to my place and wish to fit a manual pump that will solve my problem. The main one being that the truck wants to rev totaly out of control redlining it whilst supposedly idling. This is apparently to do with the spill solenoid attatched to the pump sticking so if I fit a manual pump it won't have an electronic spill solenoid to worry about and the car ecu will be null and void totally overcoming my problem with electronic fuel injection! and I would be a very happy man!
Many thanks
Chris.

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Toyota landcruiser prado sx 2.4 turbo diesel K reg (1992) fitted with 2L-TE engine auto box. Newly fitted injection pump 22100-5B300


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2006 3:27 pm 
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Is the mechanic fixing your car the same one that told you it's the spill control valve.
A faulty spill valve won't cause engine reving at idle, it will cause run on at turn off. The spill valve is basically a fuel shut off valve and has no control over engine reving, so to fit a manual pump is a lot of work which may not fix the problem. Start looking at the TPS, maybe pump speed sensor, engine temp sensor will give flatuating idle.

The electronics with a 2.4tle give very little problem and are generally easy fixed so I don't understand why you would go to the effort of ripping it all out.

Reece.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2006 3:55 pm 
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Joined: 26 Nov 2005
Posts: 63
Location: Birmingham United kingdom
Thanks for your reply Reece,

This is what has happened:- very briefly, my truck was fitted with a recon engine, turbo, and fuel pump, after about 3 weeksthe truck suddenly conked out. Eventually started but spluttered a few times, Couple of days later started to lack power dramatically really hard to start too. On top of the pump there is a solenoid with an adjusting screw and locknut on the top of that. To start the truck I would adjust the screw on the solenoid about half a turn clockwise the truck would start up but after a short time would make the engine rev flat out! To stop the truck it did no good to remove the key or battery I had to turn the screw on the solenoid anticlockwise half turn or more. When the truck was first taken to the garage the mechanic stopped it by physically cutting all the wires to the pump removing the turbo crossover pipe and chopping the fuel supply line from the filter. He told me that he could fix it but I needed to pay him upfront 500 pounds to get the parts which foolishly I agreed too, as he told me he worked for "trading standards" this was in November last year! He continually says he will definately have it up and running but keeps letting me down. Infact I have photos of the work he did not carry out which he claimed he did!
I have tested the tps off the vehicle with my analogue and digital meters and it tests ok.
The mechanic is the same one who told me it is something to do with the spill valve control and also refers to it as the shut off valve, but like you say the shut off valve is all it should do shut off or open.
But it does have an adjusting screw on top of it which all I know is that when I turned it clockwise I managed to start the engine and the only way to stop it over revving was to turn it back again then mess about for ages half degrees at a time to start the motor again. I have mentioned the speed sensor to him and he does know what they do but told me that is nothing to do with it. This is why I would like to go to a bit of trouble to change it to a manual pump.

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Toyota landcruiser prado sx 2.4 turbo diesel K reg (1992) fitted with 2L-TE engine auto box. Newly fitted injection pump 22100-5B300


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